We opened a bottle of champagne before going out to dinner, and when the subject of Thatcher came up, I switched on my recorder.
Harry:
Why has London become the world financial center? . . . through a combination of multiculturalism, the ability to suck up the most talented from all over the world, and I think it's worked also because of light-touch regulation. I mean, you just have to look at Sarbanes-Oxley in the States, and all the business that's put London's way. . . . The miners' strike's interesting because of its wider significance in
the battle against trade unionism, and actually, the freeing up of the economy, and I think that's been thrown sharply into relief by things like France, and Germany, and thirty-five-hour weeksâ
William:
Yeah, that's madnessâ
Harry:
And you have Sarkozy. And what, you know, he does speak toâit's funny, because they interview people and they say, “Well, what do you think we need, Sarkozy or Royal,” and most people say, “We need Thatcher!”
William
:âthe journalists in France have been saying that for years!
Harry
: Yeah, and so they need someone with the balls to do it. . . . But actually I think what is more interesting is the Falklands, you know . . . America, America sat on the fence for long periods . . . it had, you know, it was very much the kind of classic State Department, Defense Department, had a very . . . you know, was it . . . Fritz . . . Patrick, was it Fitzpatrick who was theâ
CB:
Kirkpatrick. Jeanne Kirkpatrick.
Harry
: Kirkpatrick, yeahâ
CB:
âwho was described by Alan Clark as “that Anglophobe harridan”â
Harry
: Yeah! Exactly! Utter,
utter
Irish bitch, basically, who was causing us all kinds of issues. Anyway, focusing too much on the economic and the analytic arguments, I think, is a bore.
William
: [
bored
] Yeah.
CB:
Well, we'll have plenty of time to talk about it, but first we should open that bottle ofâ
The transcript indicates that we did not, in fact, return to the subject, or if we did, I never turned the recorder back on.
It is not hard to see why unemployed former coal miners who are still living in poverty would fail to see the lifestyle of these two men as evidence that Thatcher created a better world. Now, you know where I stand on ThatcherâI am not saying that I agree
with them. I am just saying that if you want to know why they still hate her, look no further.
Was there an alternative? Many people still think there was. Neil Kinnock thinks so, of course.
Neil Kinnock:
I mean, the thing is, people say, “Ah, she got the trade unions reformed; she got the restoration of industrial order.” What she got was
massive
unemployment, so everybody is scared shitless! I meanâ
CB:
Yeah, but that forced restructuring, the moving of manufacturing intoâ
NK:
No, no! That was a bloody
disaster!
I mean, there had to be a restructuring, there had to be a shift in the direction of high-tech, and services, and so on, of course there did. And it didn't come from nowhere, eitherâthat expertise was there in substantial part already. But there could have been a different pace, and simultaneously with a reductionâwhich was necessaryâof traditional manufacturing, an
intensive
development of high-tech industry. I mean, if Sweden could, in twenty-five years, turn from a smokestack country into a high-tech country, do it without unemployment ever going above 6.4 percent, and be the most prosperous country in the worldâwe coulda done that in maybe the same amount, maybe a shorter time, without the devastation of communities and peoples'
lives,
and the destruction of industries, in the way that it happened! But of course they didn't
plan
it. They made the omelet by breaking the eggs on the wall. That's not the most sensible way to break the eggs.
CB:
Analogies to Sweden are always unconvincing, because Sweden hasâ
NK:
Hold on, hold on! If you look at Sweden in, say, the mid-'70s, this was an economy with a more outdated industrial
employment structure than we had then, even. I mean, this was a
rustbucket
economy. And it got turned around, they spent the same proportion of their GNP on unemployment as we did in the Thatcher years, except that three-quarters of that expenditure went on training and retraining, and the rest went on unemployment benefits, and the proportions were exactly the reverse in the United Kingdom. That was the differenceâ
CB:
Why was there such a reluctance to spend on training and retraining among the Conservatives? Was it just an objection to spending the money, or was it a sense thatâ
NK:
No, they didn't feel that transition in the economy could or should be organized. So they didn't do it.
CB:
Right. It was a philosophical problem with
planning
an economyâ
NK:
Sure. Whereas, when we used to go around saying that we could get unemployment down, and it would require generating X amount of expenditure in the economy, etc., etc., etc., we'd get absolutely bloody hammered by the classicalsâ
CB:
You'd get hammered by who?
NK:
By, you know, the classical supporters of the Conservative philosophy . . . Anyway, you know, it depends on what you think a country should be run for, and how you think it should be run. The great thing about the kind of boiled-down Friedmanism that they had is that they didn't think the country
should
be run. Or certainly, the economy. They felt that it should be left to the magic of the market. She said to me, in Prime Minister's Questions, you may have heard the phrase, “You can't buck the market.” And this is an incantation, this isâa religious
conviction,
almost, which is bloody
ridiculous!
I mean, there's no serious economist in the world who would offer that as a kind of a
chant
in an economic churchâ
CB:
No, there are
plenty
of serious economists who would say that the best economic strategy is to have as little state planning as is consistent with providing basic public necessitiesâ
NK:
Mmmm. Are they the same ones that defend maintaining the biggest defense budget in the world?
CB:
Yeah, they are. And for good reason!
NK:
[
Laughter
] There you are! They all believe in [
unintelligible
] capitalism, luv. They all believe the bloody system couldn't run by itself!
CB:
They all believe in what?
NK:
They all believe the system couldn't run by itselfâ
CB:
No, you said something before “capitalism”â
NK:
Tension o' capitalism.
CB:
The basic tension of capitalism?
NK:
No, no, [
unintelligible
]. The kind o' capitalism that, you know, is freebooting, and minimum interference and all the rest of it, but when it gets into difficulty, there's a stretcherâ
CB:
But that sort of conservative
does
always say, “Yes, there are certain things the state has to provide, and must provide well.” Defense, security. But that's where they draw the line. And they say, “The state should
not
provide job retraining, or health care; that's best dealt with by markets.” And it's not ideologically inconsistent; it's spelled outâthere are certain things that the market can't doâ
NK:
Well, the trouble with economic models is that the people who make them never live in them. It's a little bit like those office boxes built by architects who are never gonna work in 'em.
Kinnock, as you can see, wouldn't let me interrupt him. But in the end I have the final word. In his view, and he is perfectly clear about this, the alternative to Thatcher was a planned economy.
And the evidence he offers that such an economy can create anything other than a human hell is Sweden. Let me finish the sentence he wouldn't let me finish. Socialists love analogies to Sweden. But they are always unconvincing because they are based on some
fantasy
Sweden, rather than on an actual Nordic country bordered by Norway and Finland. In this Sweden of lore, every single woman is also eighteen years old, blonde, busty, lonely, naked, and waiting for you in the sauna. Kinnock is simply mistaken about Swedish unemployment statistics. In the early 1990s, Swedish unemployment rose to 13 percent, higher than ever experienced in Britain after Thatcher came to power. In the period Kinnock is discussing, Sweden in fact experienced a precipitous
slide
in the prosperity leagueâfrom fourth place in 1970 to sixteenth place in 1998.
113
In fact, the policies Kinnock admires nearly ran Sweden into the ground. Only when they were abandoned did the Swedish economy begin to recover. You may as well argue that the command economy has been a splendid success in Narnia.
Over and over again, Thatcher's critics told me that yes, Britain's economic transition was inevitable, but “she didn't plan for it.” No, she didn't. That is precisely the point. If the government plans the economy, it is no longer free. And if it is not free, the transitions that do occur tend to lengthen the lines for bread.
So the question remains: Were the costs of the Thatcher Revolution inevitable? Was this the price Britain had to pay as a kind of entrance fee to a true market economy? I'm afraid most of them probably were. The blow of the first years would have been softened had her first governments been more deft in their monetary targeting, but the bulk of the permanent dislocation can't be attributed to this. For the most part, those whose standard of living declined as a result of Thatcher's reforms became poorer because they had previously been the beneficiaries of state support, either
in the direct form of welfare payments or the indirect form of state intervention to prop up fossilized and uncompetitive industries.
Had this system of economic redistribution been sustainable, the argument could be made that it was more humane than the one that replaced it and, therefore, that it should have been sustained. But it was not sustainable: Britain was experiencing slow but steady relative decline. Relative decline, over time, tends to become absolute decline, followed by collapseâa pattern commonly observed in command economies.
Britain is now the world's second-largest producer and exporter of services. What remains of its manufacturing sector is highly competitive. In the period since Thatcher came to power, countries such as China have liberalized their economies and transformed themselves into manufacturing superpowers. It is simply not credible to imagine that Britain could have survived as a major manufacturing power in the face of that kind of competition. Attempts indefinitely to prop up Britain's uncompetitive manufacturing sector were doomed to progressively greater failure.
In Thatcher's defense, let this be said: The transition from a command to a market economy tends everywhere to be brutal. For evidence of this claim, look at Russia. The moral responsibility for this is not with those who seek to return freedom to the markets; it is with those who thought it would be a splendid idea to eliminate it in the first place. The alternative to this brutal transition wasâ
and could only have been
âmaintaining a command economy.
And this was no alternative at all.
6
For Strategic Sheep Purposes
It is wonderful with what coolness and indifference the greater part of mankind see war commenced. Those that hear of it at a distance, or read of it in books, but have never presented its evils to their minds, consider it as little more than a splendid game, a proclamation, an army, a battle, and a triumph.
âDR. JOHNSON, ARGUING AGAINST SQUANDERING BRITISH LIFE IN THE FALKLANDS, 1771
Â
Â
BRITAIN 6 (Georgia, two airstrips, three warplanes), ARGENTINA 0
â
The Sun,
1982
The Falklandsâknown to Argentineans as the Malvinasâare a desolate chain of islands in the South Atlantic some 300 miles east of the Straits of Magellan. Variously disputed by the major colonial powers until 1816, they were claimed by Argentina upon its independence from Spain, then reclaimed by the British in 1833,
when a British naval force evicted the Argentineans. They were thereafter uninterruptedly settled and inhabited by the British, but certainly in no large numbers: In 1982, the Falklands were home to some 1,820 British subjects, 600,000 sheep, and five species of penguins. The islands were of no geostrategic significance: no arable land, no warm-water ports, no strategic raw materials, no multinational fruit conglomerates, nothingâjust sheep and penguins.