Conversations with Myself (34 page)

2.

Afghanistan

My press statement.

No pulling out before B.L. [Osama bin Laden] is flushed out.

Civilian casualties unfortunate, but that happens in every war.

3.

Palestine
– Almost 30 years of fruitless efforts.

My proposal

Arafat affair unfortunate

4.

Burundi increase in funding
⁶

5.

Lockerbie
⁷

1. FROM THE UNPUBLISHED SEQUEL TO HIS AUTOBIOGRAPHY

The plundering of indigenous land, exploitation of its mineral wealth and other raw materials, confinement of its people to specific areas, and the restriction of their movement have, with notable exceptions, been the cornerstones of colonialism throughout the land.

This was the form British colonialism took in South Africa, so much so, that after the passing of the Land Act of 1913 by the South African government, a white minority of barely 15 per cent of the country’s population owned about 87 per cent of the land, while the black majority – Africans, Coloureds and Indians – occupied less than 13 per cent. They were forced to live in squalor and poverty or to seek employment on white farms, in the mines and urban areas.

When the Nationalist Party came to power in 1948, Afrikaners acted with unbelievable cruelty and sought to rob blacks even of these meager rights to land they still possessed.

Communities large and small, who had occupied areas from time immemorial, where their ancestors and beloved ones were buried, were mercilessly uprooted and thrown into the open veld, [left] there to fend for themselves. And this was done by a white community led by an educated but infamous clergy[man] and his successors who used their skills and religion to commit various atrocities against the black majority which God forbade. Yet they hypocritically claimed that their evil schemes were inspired by God.

(Quote: Sol Plaatje on the The Land Act of 1913)

2. CONVERSATION WITH AHMED KATHRADA ABOUT THE PRESSURE OF BEING RECOGNISED

MANDELA: Oh, by the way, did I tell you that one day I walked from Lower Houghton to Michael’s house? Michael Harmel and Eli Weinberg?
¹

KATHRADA: In those days?

MANDELA:… No, I say I walked last Sunday. I walked from Lower Houghton right up to their houses, their old houses.

KATHRADA: Gee whiz.

MANDELA: And, but of course Michael’s house was owned by somebody else, but I was able to make it out to find it.

KATHRADA: The Weinberg house is still there.

MANDELA: No, it’s still there.

KATHRADA: Sheila is still there.
²

MANDELA: And Sheila came whilst I was there because there was – there were doubts because it’s now fenced in a different way, you know, with poles…

KATHRADA: Ja.

MANDELA:… and so on. And, but I was sure this was the house and then whilst I was still there some old lady came and said, ‘No, that’s the former house of Michael Harmel’, and then Sheila also joined us.

KATHRADA: Oh.

MANDELA: Mmmhh.

KATHRADA: I hope you were there with your security.

MANDELA:… Yes… the police were there and security.

KATHRADA: Oh. Is it far from there?

MANDELA: I took about a little over an hour to reach it.

KATHRADA: It’s quite a distance, man.

MANDELA: Quite a distance. But I was walking really very slowly, not in a hurry.

KATHRADA: But doesn’t it attract a lot of attention?

MANDELA: Ooh Christ! Don’t say that, don’t say that.

KATHRADA: Ah.

MANDELA: You know, it’s a difficult life, this one.

KATHRADA: Ja.

MANDELA: Not being able to do what you want.

KATHRADA: Ja, it’s very…

MANDELA: Because walks are something I like. It’s difficult now. It’s better here… in Westbrook because the yard itself is…

KATHRADA: It’s very big, yes.

3. CONVERSATION WITH AHMED KATHRADA ABOUT INDIVIDUAL POLICE OFFICERS

KATHRADA: You know the day we went to Howick?

MANDELA: Aha.

KATHRADA: That colonel who was there…
he
told me that Van Wyk is farming. He even told me where he was, but I forget now.

MANDELA: Is that so?

KATHRADA: Mmm.

MANDELA: Well you know that he made very good statements.

KATHRADA: Ja, in the
Sunday Times
?

MANDELA: Mmm.

KATHRADA: Where he said that he would be prepared to serve under Mandela.

MANDELA: That’s right, yes.

KATHRADA: He’d be ‘honoured’ to serve…

MANDELA: Mmhh. It’s good to see these chaps. Dirker died, hey?

KATHRADA:
No
, he’s very much alive… Some, some journalist went to see him

MANDELA: Is that so?

KATHRADA: And he [Dirker] said, ‘Look are you a member of the AWB [Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging]?’ Dirker said. [The journalist] said no… [Dirker said,] ‘Then I don’t want to speak to you’.

MANDELA: He’s AWB?

KATHRADA: Ja. Well Dirker would be, man.

MANDELA: That’s true.

KATHRADA: He… is in Oudtshoorn. You know he comes from Oudtshoorn…

MANDELA: Is he also farming? Or…

KATHRADA: I don’t know if he’s farming but he’s in Oudtshoorn …That chap was a very crude fellow.

MANDELA: Gee whiz. And what happened to Kruger? Do you know?

KATHRADA: Nothing at all. I haven’t heard at all.

MANDELA: No, that’s one chap I want to see, man.

KATHRADA: Ja. Now that was a very decent chap.

MANDELA: Absolutely.

KATHRADA: Ja. It would be good, you see, if one day one can get hold of some of these old special branch fellows; they’ll tell us who’s where…

MANDELA:
Who
can we get, man? Because, you know, it’s such an act of generosity… to say to these fellows, can we have a
braai
[barbecue]?

KATHRADA: Exactly. That, that’s just going through my mind now. If we could think of some little function where we invite these chaps, police, warders, you know? If we can get hold of them, it’ll be a very nice gesture.

MANDELA: Absolutely, man… And, if you remind me, you know, on Wednesday, I can ask [General] Van der Merwe… to come and see me and to give him this task to trace these people, you know?…

KATHRADA: Well that would be a very good thing.

MANDELA: Yes. Oh, I am sure Dirker would come.

KATHRADA: Of course, now he would come…

MANDELA: And old Van Wyk. What about the beast, Swanepoel. Is he still alive?

KATHRADA: Yes… I don’t know if you still remember. There was an invasion of the Israeli Embassy in Fox Street? In 1967, [19]68.

MANDELA: Oh, I see, I see, yes. That’s right.

KATHRADA: There was a siege.

MANDELA: Yes, that’s right, yes.

KATHRADA: Where some people invaded… [And] occupied it …and then there was some shoot-out or…

MANDELA: That’s right, yes. I remember that.

KATHRADA:… Swanepoel was in charge of [the police operation] and this person was sentenced to twenty years or something. Now [he] is released and he went to visit Swanepoel and Swanepoel says… he became one of the family… visited often, and now, he was wondering, he hasn’t visited him for a long time, what’s happened to… this chap…

MANDELA: Man, that would be very good to call these chaps.

KATHRADA: Ja, even Swanepoel. Why not?

MANDELA: Yes, yes…

KATHRADA: But we must think about it because there’s a lot of hostility towards Swanepoel, hey?

MANDELA: Yes.

KATHRADA: Then of course there is also hostility against other police who tortured… our people.

MANDELA: Yes…

KATHRADA: A chap like Mac [Maharaj], for instance. I don’t know if he’ll ever agree to [come], because Swanepoel…

MANDELA: Tortured him?

KATHRADA: Ja… Andimba [Toivo ja Toivo], very badly too.
³

MANDELA: Mmm.

KATHRADA: Zeph [Mothopeng].
⁴

MANDELA: Yes.

KATHRADA: A lot of people were tortured by him.

MANDELA: Mmm.

4. CONVERSATION WITH AHMED KATHRADA ABOUT EXAGGERATION

KATHRADA: Aha. OK. Then, page 156 [of
Long Walk to Freedom
draft]… ‘Now the South African security forces would know precisely where I was, which is precisely what we wanted.’ Now, in a later part of this chapter you are talking of your trip to England, where you did not want people to know.

MANDELA: No, that’s – that is an exaggeration… That is what we wanted. We never wanted that.

KATHRADA: Aha.

MANDELA: Just take that out.

KATHRADA: OK.

MANDELA: You see, the question of dramatising things, even when they are not correct…

KATHRADA: Aha.

MANDELA:… is a typical American thing.

5. CONVERSATION WITH AHMED KATHRADA ABOUT PERSONAL ISSUES

KATHRADA: Then [page] 115 [of
Long Walk to Freedom
draft]: ‘How did Winnie react to your declaration that you wanted to marry her – you wanted her to marry you? Must have been quite astounding?’

MANDELA: No, I told them that I don’t want to be dealing with personal issues.

KATHRADA: Ah.

MANDELA: Say that I’m not answering that question.

KATHRADA: Ah.

MANDELA: I’ve told them.

KATHRADA: OK.

MANDELA: Or just say I can’t remember.

KATHRADA: Ah.

MANDELA: And I wouldn’t like the matter to be taken further because they might put [it in] their own words.

KATHRADA: Then last question: ‘How had your family reacted to your divorce and remarriage?’

MANDELA: No, I’m not answering that.

KATHRADA: Again, hey?

MANDELA: Mmm. I’m not answering that question.

6. FROM A PERSONAL FILE – NOTES AT A MEETING IN ARUSHA, TANZANIA, DURING THE BURUNDI PEACE PROCESS, 16 JANUARY 2000

Few of the parties negotiating, if any, seem to have learnt the art of compromise. The inflexibility of certain parties will inevitably make it difficult to secure the compromises necessary for a workable agreement… There is a deeply entrenched perception, which is shared even by some highly experienced and impartial political analysts, that the real problem in Burundi is the lack of a dynamic leadership which understands the importance of national unity, of peace and reconciliation, a leadership with vision and which is moved by the slaughter of innocent civilians.

I do not know whether this perception is accurate or not. I will decide the question as we continue together to seek a formula for peace and stability. I believe that all of you are capable of rising to expectations and to meet the enormous challenges facing your country. The fact that you have emerged as leaders of your country, whatever mistakes you committed and weaknesses revealed in your thinking and actions, proves that you are all opinion makers who are worried over the tragic events that have led to the slaughter of thousands of your people.

But the failure to agree on many core issues, the numerous splits in your political organisations, the lack of a sense of urgency, in a situation which requires bold initiatives, is undoubtedly an indictment against all of you… Compromise is the art of leadership and you compromise with your adversary, not with your friend. It would seem from a study of your situation that all of you have been posturing, inflexible, concentrating on manouevering to discredit or weaken your rivals. Hardly any one of you has concentrated on drawing attention to those issues that unite you and your people.

Studying the latest history of your country, you seem to be totally unaware of the fundamental principles which ought to motivate every leader.

a) That there are good men and women in all communities. In particular there are good men and women among the Hutus, Tutsis and the Twa; that the duty of a real leader is to identify those good men and women and give them tasks of serving the community.

b) That a true leader must work hard to ease tensions, especially when dealing with sensitive and complicated issues. Extremists normally thrive when there is tension, and pure emotion tends to supercede rational thinking.

c) A real leader uses every issue, no matter how serious and sensitive, to ensure that at the end of the debate we should emerge stronger and more united than ever before.

d) In every dispute you eventually reach a point where neither party is altogether right or altogether wrong. When compromise is the only alternative for those who seriously want peace and stability.

7. FROM THE UNPUBLISHED SEQUEL TO HIS AUTOBIOGRAPHY

Draft.

16.10.98

The Presidential Years.

Chapter One.

Men and women, all over the world, right down the centuries, come and go.

Some leave nothing behind, not even their names. It would seem that they never existed at all.

Others do leave something behind: the haunting memory of the evil deeds they committed against other people; gross violation[s] of human rights, not only limited to oppression and exploitation of ethnic minorities or vice versa, but who even resort to genocide in order to maintain their horrendous policies.

The moral decay of some communities in various parts of the world reveals itself among others in the use of the name of God to justify the maintenance of actions which are condemned by the entire world as crimes against humanity.

Among the multitude of those who have throughout history committed themselves to the struggle for justice in all its implications, are some of those who have commanded invincible liberation armies who waged stirring operations and sacrificed enormously in order to free their people from the yoke of oppression, to better their lives by creating jobs, building houses, schools, hospitals, introducing electricity, and bringing clean and healthy water to people especially in the rural areas. Their aim was to remove the gap between the rich and the poor, the educated and uneducated, the healthy and those afflicted by preventable diseases.