Still Missing: Rethinking the D.B. Cooper Case and Other Mysterious Unsolved Disappearances (5 page)

ATTORNEY: Mrs. Lepsy, were you ever in a position to observe Mr. Lepsy’s relationship with his children?

JACKIE: Yes.

ATTORNEY: Can you indicate to the judge upon which occasions you were able to observe this relationship?

JACKIE: On most of them, since we lived together.

ATTORNEY: You lived together with Mr. Lepsy and the children in the same household up until the date of his disappearance?

JACKIE: That’s correct.

ATTORNEY: Was there anything special that he would do in relationship to the children which would indicate a deep feeling or fondness for them?

JACKIE: He played with them, things like that. He read a lot to them. He was very good about reading to them before they went to bed and share music with them and things like that.

ATTORNEY: You mean he’d read them fairy tales or something before they’d go to bed at night or—

JACKIE: He never read them fairy tales. He used to read them Greek mythology a lot.

ATTORNEY: Greek Mythology?

JACKIE: Yes.

ATTORNEY: Was this a regularized habit of his to do this before the children went to bed at night?

JACKIE: Yes.

ATTORNEY: Would you say that your husband’s relationship with the children was an extremely good one between father and child?

JACKIE: I would say so.

ATTORNEY: Now you’re under oath, Mrs. Lepsy, and I want you to indicate if in fact you believe that there were marital difficulties?

JACKIE: I would have to ask you to what degree.

ATTORNEY: Well, did you and your husband have difficulties of a nature and extent where in you contemplated divorce or wherein he indicated to you that he contemplated divorce?

JACKIE: No.

ATTORNEY: Did you have marital difficulties to the extent that you sought outside counseling, either religious or social services counseling, you and your husband in regard to the marital situation?

JACKIE: No.

ATTORNEY: Would you characterize the fact that you had some bumps and bruises in your marriage with your husband?

JACKIE: Oh certainly.

ATTORNEY: Did you have other friends, other couples that you knew at that point in time in your life that you dealt with, were friends with?

JACKIE: Were friends with? Yes.

ATTORNEY: Did you ever have discussions with other women in regard to the types of difficulties they may be encountering in their marriage?

JACKIE: Just the normal every-day-over-the-coffee-cup-sort of discussions.

ATTORNEY: Did you perceive that the type of difficulties you were having were similar to the normalized types of difficulties that most of the other ladies were having?

JACKIE: Yes.

ATTORNEY: You would then not characterize any difficulties that you were having as other than those which normally occur during the course of a marriage and problems with raising children and making decisions in regard to the purchase of various things and where to go and so forth?

JACKIE: I could say that.

ATTORNEY: Mrs. Lepsy at the time of the disappearance of the decedent, did he have any parents living?

JACKIE: Yes, both his parents were living.

ATTORNEY: Did your family, when I say your family, I mean you and Mr. Lepsy and the children, have a special sort of relationship with his mother?

JACKIE: We had a very close relationship with his mother.

ATTORNEY: Is it not a fact that in the years prior to the date of his disappearance that his mother would come during summer to visit you for as much as a month at a time?

JACKIE: Yes.

ATTORNEY: She lived in Chicago at that point in time, is that correct?

JACKIE: That’s correct.

ATTORNEY: Subsequent to the date of his disappearance, did she continue to come and visit you?

JACKIE: Oh yeah.

ATTORNEY: For many years after that?

JACKIE: Yes.

ATTORNEY: Is it not also true that she died approximately two years ago?

JACKIE: Yes.

ATTORNEY: Were you down to see her in Chicago approximately a week before her death?

JACKIE: Yes, I was.

ATTORNEY: At that time she was suffering from terminal cancer? Is that correct?

JACKIE: That’s correct.

ATTORNEY: She knew that she was in a position where she was going to die within a short period of time, is that correct?

JACKIE: That is correct.

ATTORNEY: Had you over the period from the date of disappearance of the decedent until the date of her death, had any conversations with her regarding the disappearance?

JACKIE: Many.

ATTORNEY: Was there ever any indication by her to you that she knew either the reasons of the disappearance of she knew where the presumed decedent was at that point in time?

JACKIE: Absolutely not.

ATTORNEY: Did you not in fact have a conversation with her just the week prior to her death regarding the fact that neither one you had ever heard from the decedent since his disappearance in 1969?

JACKIE: Yes.

ATTORNEY: The decedent was not attending to his mother’s bedside prior to the time of her death nor was he at her funeral, was that correct?

JACKIE: That’s correct.

ATTORNEY: Did he go down to see her also in Chicago besides her coming up for a month or so during the summer?

JACKIE: Yes.

ATTORNEY: Did your children after the date of his disappearance continue to go to Chicago on various occasions and see their grandmother?

JACKIE: Yes.

ATTORNEY: Their grandmother would also come up here during the summer months?

JACKIE: Yes.

ATTORNEY: Mrs. Lepsy, at any point in time during the approximate 14 years of marriage to Mr. Lepsy, were you ever aware of any illegal act that he from the stand point of a premeditated theft?

JACKIE: No.

ATTORNEY: Did he ever discuss with you the fact that he would like to attempt a theft in relationship to bettering his position in life?

JACKIE: No.

ATTORNEY: Did he ever discuss with you the possibility of any embezzlement or were you ever aware through observation of him that he would take things that did not belong to him?

JACKIE: No.

ATTORNEY: At any point in time during the course of your marriage, was there ever an occasion when you went out to eat or where you stayed in motels somewhere where you left without paying?

JACKIE: No.

ATTORNEY: Mrs. Lepsy, there were certain insurance policies that were on your husband’s life, is that correct?

JACKIE: That’s correct.

ATTORNEY: One of those insurance policies was with the Equitable Life Insurance Society, is the correct?

JACKIE: That’s correct.

ATTORNEY: In the amount of $10,000?

JACKIE: That’s correct.

ATTORNEY: Did you secure the services of a Mr. Nelson Miles, an attorney at law, in Grayling, Michigan in order to help you to collect on those policies?

JACKIE: I did.

ATTORNEY: Did Mr. Miles give you certain advice in relationship to what you should or should not do in regard to those policies.

JACKIE: Yes.

ATTORNEY: Is it not a fact that you settled the one dispute with the insurance company on a $10,000 policy for $7,500?

JACKIE: That’s correct.

ATTORNEY: Was that done to avoid a continuing litigation and the cost of litigation as far as you were concerned in regard to Mr. Miles’ fees, etc?

JACKIE: I just left it up to him and I told him to do the best thing for me because I don’t know anything about things like that.

ATTORNEY: Was there ever a belief on your part that the insurance company didn’t owe you the full $10,000?

JACKIE: Oh no.

ATTORNEY: You thought they did owe—

JACKIE: I thought they did, yes.

ATTORNEY: So the settlement of the $7,500 then was from the standpoint of being in a position to receive the $7,500 then which you needed rather than waiting for the $10,000 at some future date?

JACKIE: That’s correct.

ATTORNEY: I have no further questions of Mrs. Lepsy at this time.

EXAMINATION OF CLAIMANT BY ALJ:

ATTORNEY: Mrs. Lepsy, you were married to Mr. Lepsy what year?

JACKIE: 1955.

ATTORNEY: He was born 7/26/1936?

JACKIE: That’s correct.

ATTORNEY: Where were you residing at the time your husband left or disappeared?

JACKIE: In Grayling.

ATTORNEY: How long had you lived in Grayling?

JACKIE: Since the fall of 1966

ATTORNEY: Where had the two of you lived prior to that time?

JACKIE: Gaylord.

ATTORNEY: Was he with the same employer in Gaylord?

JACKIE: Yes, uh huh.

ATTORNEY: How did it come to pass that you moved from Gaylord to Grayling?

JACKIE: He got a promotion.

ATTORNEY: That promotion was to what?

JACKIE: To store manager.

ATTORNEY: He had that position when he disappeared?

JACKIE: That’s correct.

ATTORNEY: Back in 1977 you made a Statement Regarding Presumed Death of an Individual. Do you recall that? It’s been marked as exhibit 17.

JACKIE: Yes.

ATTORNEY: In question 15 of that exhibit the question is: 15b, “what was the condition of the missing person’s accounts at the time of the departure,” and you responded that he was in debt and had financial problems. What kinds of problems are you referring to?

JACKIE: I didn’t type that report but-

ATTORNEY: Well was it typed at the time you signed it?

JACKIE: Probably, yes, I’m sure I read—

ATTORNEY: It makes a big difference.

JACKIE: Yes. At that particular point in my life I guess I was probably thinking how bad off I was financially and that was really coloring my answers to a lot of those questions.

ATTORNEY: Well this was 3 years ago.

JACKIE: I know. I still feel that way.

ATTORNEY: Were there any financial problems?

JACKIE: In…

ATTORNEY: Was he in debt?

JACKIE: No more than normal. I would say that we were, for the amount of money he made and for the size of our family that we were, we had our normal bills. We made our payments on time, we had money left over for vacations. I would say that we were status quo with the rest of the community.

ATTORNEY: 11 years ago what was his salary? 

JACKIE: I believe it was in the neighborhood of $12,000 a year.

ATTORNEY: What were your house payments?

JACKIE: $70 a month.

ATTORNEY: What were the loan payments then or had they been paid before?

JACKIE: No. The one was—it was under $50, the industrial loan to redo the bathroom. I’m trying to recall what the payments were on the siding. I believe they were under $100. I think they were more than our house payments were.

ATTORNEY: Were you buying any other large items such as a car or a boat?

JACKIE: No, he did purchased a motorcycle and I don’t really know what his payments were. That was something I didn’t sign for or anything and he took care of that, that was his—

ATTORNEY: Was there any unusual medical or health costs, expenses?

JACKIE: No.

ATTORNEY: What other expenses were in existence at the time he disappeared?

JACKIE: Well, we had a charge account at Spiegel’s for clothes for the kids for school, one at Penny’s. We did have credit card for gas, and we also had an American Express card.

ATTORNEY: Had any of those credit cards been canceled?

JACKIE: Prior to his disappearance?

ATTORNEY: Yes, prior to his disappearance.

JACKIE: No.

ATTORNEY: Were there any collection people after him or your family?

JACKIE: No.

ATTORNEY: Were there any collection law suits filed against him or yourself?

JACKIE: No.

ATTORNEY: Do you recall having a credit check when you obtained the loan for home improvement?

JACKIE: I don’t recall. Maybe they did one. I don’t—

ATTORNEY: Do you recall ever receiving a bad credit report?

JACKIE: No.

ATTORNEY: What did you mean by putting down that he was in debt and had financial problems? What did you really mean by that?

JACKIE: Well, I’ve always worried about money, okay. I still worry about money. I’ll probably worry about money ‘til I die, and so to me when you owe money to people, which people have to, you know at time in your life, it just bothered me. I don’t like to owe people money. I don’t have any credit cards in my possession to this day, right now because if I can’t pay cash for it, I go without it and that’s how I felt about it. That’s the way I am, the way I was raised. I don’t like to owe money to people.

ATTORNEY: As I listen to your testimony, there were no financial problems at all.

JACKIE: Not, like I say, my feelings were, you know, I was uncomfortable having credit cards but he wasn’t, and we did make our payments on time, but that’s just my personality.

ATTORNEY: Here at question 16, same question is raised and I quote section c of 16, “did the missing person have any financial troubles at the time of his disappearance?” You marked yes. Same response?

JACKIE: It was just the way my mind was colored about owing people money. If he were here and you were to ask him, he’d probably say no, you know, it’s just my interpretation of owing people money.

ATTORNEY: At the time he disappeared if my recollection is correct, the company had supplied him with a car, or he had a company car at his disposal?

JACKIE: Yes.

ATTORNEY: You had a personal car or a family car?

JACKIE: That originally was our family car and then he sold it to the company to use it as a company car and I had second hand, we did have a second hand car that was basically mine.

ATTORNEY: What happened to the company car on the day that he disappeared for work? Did he have possession of that car when he left for work?

JACKIE: Yes he did.

ATTORNEY: Where was that car found, do you know?

JACKIE: Right here in Traverse City.

ATTORNEY: Where in Traverse City?

JACKIE: In the parking lot of the airport.

ATTORNEY: Did you make any attempt to find out whether or not your husband had purchased an airline ticket?