Talk About a Dream: The Essential Interviews of Bruce Springsteen (44 page)

In his first-ever
Backstreets
interview, Springsteen spoke with editor Christopher Phillips in the days leading up to the August 4 Vote for Change tour announcement. Making clear what has long been expressed through his body of work, Springsteen discussed the motivation behind his involvement: “This is probably the most important election of my lifetime … given what I’ve written about, the things that I’ve wanted our band to stand for over the years, it’s just too big a battle to lay out of.”

Springsteen spoke in unambiguous terms about his hopes for this country, his convictions about the role of the artist in society, his perspective on the relationship between music and politics, and the complexities of his responsibility to his audience.

You’ve supported a lot of causes over the years, but as political and socially conscious as a lot of your work has been, this is the first time you’ve really weighed in on electoral politics. So I guess the big question is, why now?

Basically, this is probably the most important election of my lifetime. I think that the government has drifted too far from American values.
After 9/11, I was like everybody else—I supported going into Afghanistan, and I felt tremendous unity in the country that I don’t think I’ve ever felt exactly like that before. It was a moment of great sadness, but also tremendous possibility. And I think that was dashed when we jumped headlong into the Iraq war, which I never understood, and I talked about that on the road. I never understood how or why we really ended up there. We offered up the lives of the best of our young people under circumstances that have been discredited. I had to live through that when I was young myself, and for any of us that lived through the Vietnam War, it was just very devastating.

Along with that, the deficits, the squeezing of services like the after-school services for the kids who need it the most, the big wind-fall tax cuts, the division of wealth that has threatened our connection to one another over the past 20 years that is increasing … these are things that as the election time neared—I couldn’t really keep true to the ideas that I’d written about for 30 years without weighing in on this one.

I don’t think I’ve seen anything like it before in my lifetime. I think that the freedoms that we’ve taken for granted—I spoke about this on the road a little bit, too—they are slowly being eroded. In the past I’ve gotten involved in a lot of grassroots organizations that sort of expressed my views, and where I thought I could be of some small help. I guess I’ve been doing that for about 20 years, and that was a way that I was very happy to work. I always believed that it was good for the artist to remain distant from the seat of power, to retain your independent voice, and that was the way I liked to conduct my work. But the stakes in this one are just too high. I felt like, given what I’ve written about, the things that I’ve wanted our band to stand for over the years, it’s just too big a battle to lay out of.

A lot of great, unique artists are coming together for these shows—R.E.M., Pearl Jam, Jurassic 5, Bonnie Raitt—so I’m guessing that even with the unity of at least one common goal, there will be some different viewpoints. How much expression of that do you think there will be? Will we get different perspectives from different artists?

I would imagine so—as different as all the artists involved. I think we’ve all come together with one goal in mind, but I think everybody’s idea of where it goes from there could very well be different. Myself, I like John
Kerry a lot. I don’t think he has all the answers, or that John Edwards has all the answers, but I think they have the experience, the life experience, and I think they have the sincerity to ask the hard questions about America and to try to search for honest solutions. I believe they’re going to do that. And I don’t feel that way about the guys who are in there right now. I feel that trust has been broken, and there’s no going back.

What did you think of Kerry’s speech [at the Democratic National Convention]?

I thought it was fantastic—the best one I’ve heard him give.

And using “No Surrender” for his entrance music—is that something the campaign clears with you in advance?

No—somebody mentioned to me that they’d heard it at different rallies here and there, around the country … but it was a nice call.

You’ve focused a whole lot more on issues than labels or parties over the years—whether that’s Democrat, Republican, Independent, Reform, Green, or anything else. That has appeared to be a very conscious decision, so in this case was it just that things reached a tipping point?

Yeah, I would say. I mean, I grew up in a Democratic house. The only political discussion I ever remember in my house was when I came home from school when I was little—I think someone asked me at school what we were, it must have been during an election season at some point, and I was probably around my son’s age, eight or nine. And I came home and said, “Mom, what are we?” And she said, “Oh, we’re Democrats. We’re Democrats because they’re for the working people.” And that was it—that was the political discussion that went on in my house over about 18 years.

So I’ve always held progressive beliefs, or liberal beliefs. I think that when I went to write—you’re shaped by your background, fundamentally, there’s no getting around it. I lived in a household that was caught in the squeeze, endlessly trying to make ends meet. My mother running down to the finance company, borrowing money to have a Christmas, and then paying it back all year until the next Christmas and borrowing some more. So I know what that’s like. This time out, there just wasn’t really any way I could sit on the sidelines.

That makes me think about that “criticism” you always seem to get: how can a millionaire still write about blue collar concerns? Something similar gets leveled at Edwards: he’s the son of a mill worker, and yet he turned into a millionaire lawyer, as if one negates the other. But clearly those formative experiences help shape how you see the world
.

That criticism is also a tremendously muddled idea of how writers write. First of all, have you ever been to Mark Twain’s house?

No, I never have
.

It’s
really nice
[
laughs
]. The room he wrote in is beautiful.

It wasn’t a whitewashed shack with a bunch of frogs hopping around outside?

No, it’s a really beautiful Victorian home. So it’s been done before! [
laughs
] … It seems to me that particular criticism gets aimed at musicians rather than, say, filmmakers. Nobody complains that Marty Scorsese isn’t actually in the Mafia. It always comes up—I’ve settled into the fact that I’ll be answering that question for the rest of my working life. But it’s a muddled understanding of the way that things get written.

Well, I hear you’ve been writing up a storm these days
.

People say that all the time. I wish that were true!

Just wondering if we should be looking for any new material on the tour, if you’ve written anything for it specifically?

I’m always trying … I don’t have anything until I have it, you know? Actually, I took a lot of time off—Patti was working on her record, and so I’ve been spending time with the kids, and I enjoyed watching her work. I’m always writing, I’m always trying to come up with something, but until I have it, I don’t have it. So I can’t predict.

You’ve said that “a writer writes to be understood.” And there’s been so much misinterpretation of your songs over the years, the obvious ones being “Born in the U.S.A.” and “American Skin (41 Shots).” For the most part, you’ve let your songs do the talking, but I’m wondering, in addition to the changes these shows are trying
to effect in the country, if you think this will give your audience more clarity as far as the meaning and intent of your writing?

I don’t know, it’s possible. Basically, I have faith in the songs. And I also surrender to the reality that once your songs are out there, that you’re simply another voice in the ongoing discussion to define them. That’s just the way it plays. And that’s okay—I think they’re out there to be debated, some of them. It’s funny with “American Skin,” I do run into people who thoroughly believed the
New York Post
’s interpretation of that piece of music! But I’ve also run into a lot of people who completely understood what I was trying to say. And that’s the way that it goes. When those songs go out there, then you add your voice to the chorus of people fighting for their definition and what they stand for. I have an edge, because I’ve still got the guitar in my hand.

But it’s possible—it’s not something I thought about, but it may.

In the past when you’ve felt the need to define something more clearly—I’m thinking right now of “Empty Sky” at the [2003] Atlantic City show, when you made it very clear what you intended “an eye for an eye” to mean—what goes through your head when you decide to clarify things like that?

I have no compunction about stopping and telling someone what I mean. There’s a moment to do that. And so, hey, I had the stage at the moment [
laughs
], and generally if I feel any sort of recurring misunderstanding that’s occurred more than a few nights running, I’ll say, “Okay, there’s
a few
people….” Maybe there’s 100, maybe there’s ten. Maybe there’s two. Maybe I’m just hearing the guy who’s making the noise at that moment. But in the end, I am speaking to you. I’m speaking to you individually.

And so I don’t have a problem stopping at a particular moment and making clear my intentions. And now with the fabulous help of the Internet [
laughs
], those intentions are instantaneously around the world, and it helps clear things up even faster.

Well, hey, happy we could be of service!

Or muddle things even quicker, I suppose…. But when you have an audience the size of mine, that audience is broad. And when I spoke about the Iraq war during this past tour, before the truth came out, there were people who cheered, and there were people who booed. And that’s the way it rolls. I tended to keep my comments down to approximately
two minutes at the end of the night, which I felt was a pretty good balance to the three hours that we’d spent playing, you know?

I do believe that you serve at the behest of the audience. But, at the same time, I believe that my ideas and the beliefs that our band has stood for over the years are an integral part of our work, and we have a
duty
to make those ideas as clear as possible. To make our stand at different moments as clear as possible. I think that’s part of what people look to us for, that’s a part of what we have provided to a portion of our audience. And I think on any given night I’m playing to many of my audiences out there. There’s the
Tom Joad
audience, there’s the “Dancing in the Dark” audience, but hey, they’re all there at that particular moment. So I look at it as a part of our process. You also figure, these are the times we’re working in. And I think you’ve got to take your stand in them.

When some conservative fans bristled at some of that stuff last summer, like your mention of the Al Franken book, I think some people felt that it was a contradiction of your welcome to fans of all political persuasions. I guess I always just took that as, “Everybody is welcome here, but that doesn’t mean that I won’t speak my mind or challenge you on occasion.”

That’s right. It’s pretty simple. I don’t need people cheering everything I’m doing—I don’t go out expecting that, and we’ve done enough that I’ve seen both sides of the coin. And that’s all right. The show is a forum of ideas. That’s one of the things that we try to provide over the course of the evening. And as such, that’s part of what you’re getting when you walk through the doors.

Which shouldn’t come as a surprise to anybody who has been following you for any decent length of time. Some fans seem to have been taken aback by the posting of Al Gore’s speech on your website, or the impeachment jokes onstage, but it seems to me that your political stance and your social concerns have been consistent for a long time
.

Yeah, I would be surprised if there are
longtime
fans who were surprised. I could see somebody who casually comes in and out depending on what you’re doing, or on a particular song, but I think if you followed us over the past 30 years, our positions on most social issues have been consistent and straightforward.

Some people may have blinders on and just choose not to see it, or choose to take the “good parts” and leave the rest
.

That’s true—I think that part of the audience/artist relationship is one of intense identification. “You’re me, I’m you.” That is a big part of the deal. And I think part of what we do is say, “Well, yeah, we
are
one. But we are not the
same
one.”

I love John Wayne’s work like crazy. I’ve found great inspiration and soul in it my whole life. I’m not a fan of John Wayne’s
politics
. But I love John Wayne, and I love the work he’s done. And so that’s how it bounces sometimes.

So who inspires you not just artistically but politically as well? It looks like John Fogerty is going to be on the bill, and his songs seem to be a touchstone for you in that way
.

Really, if I go back to it, when I was really young, even with Steel Mill, we did the local benefits, marches down to Washington in the late ’60s. So the truth of it is, if you’re in my generation and if you grew up in any part of the alternative culture, that was just a part of your birthright. Whether you want to call it activism, or concerned citizenry, that came as a part of those times. I find it unusual when I meet people who did
not
have that experience from my generation. They are out there, you know? But for me and most of my friends, those were things that were just a part of growing up when we did. And the people who we admired and emulated—which for me obviously begins with Dylan—had a very clear political voice. John [Fogerty] did it more subtly, but fabulously also.