What Will It Take to Make A Woman President?: Conversations About Women, Leadership and Power (17 page)

MARIANNE SCHNALL
: Why do you think we have not yet had a woman president?

BARBARA LEE
: Well, I tell you, there are real barriers. Women have had to really fight to reduce systemic and institutional barriers on all fronts. When you look at even the pay equity at this point and the gap in terms of how much a woman makes versus a man—we’re still fighting that battle. And so, we’ve come a long way since women gained the right to vote, but we have a long way to go. Our struggle for equal rights is not over and I think that’s reflected in all levels of government and in the private sector.

MS
: Do you feel hopeful that you’ll see a woman president in your lifetime? What will it take, do you think, to make that milestone happen?

BL
: I think the country is ready for a woman to be president. Let me just say, I think we were ready, we just didn’t vote en masse when Shirley Chisholm ran, and that’s how I got involved in politics. She was the first woman to seriously run for president, the first African American to run, and I am telling you, the country was excited. I remember working with NOW and all of the feminist organizations and women and communities
of color throughout the country, and we were close then. It’s just . . . Shirley didn’t have the money, and the media was against her, so she had all of the uphill battles to climb, but I think that she really paved the way. She charted the course for a woman to be president, and I think because of her and because of the movement, the country is about ready.

MS
: What do the results of the last election tell us about the way our electorate and the face of our government are changing? Do you see a shifting in paradigms happening, not just in terms of having more women now in Congress, but just diversity in general? What trends interest you?

BL
: Sure. Young people are really making a difference, and I’m doing everything I can do to help keep them involved. And we’re seeing coalitions being put together that beforehand didn’t really work together—when you look at coalitions of communities of color—the black, Latino, Asian-Pacific American coalitions, when you look at the progressive coalitions, when you look at the peace and justice coalitions. First, I think the country is very progressive, when you look at what it took to elect President Barack Obama, and so it’s the natural next step to keep this coalition together to elect a woman, because I think it’s these voters who have said that no longer will we have these barriers that would prevent a woman from becoming president.

MS
: I know that there are sometimes psychological factors—for both men and women—in terms of seeing a woman in that highest office, being able to handle issues like national security or a situation like war. Do you think that in terms of our culture we are ready to see a woman that way?

BL
: Absolutely. Even though I didn’t agree with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, I mean, she was an African American woman as
secretary of state, and I firmly disagreed with her 95 percent of the time on policy. When you look at Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, when you look at Madeleine Albright, when you look at Susan Rice, our ambassador—when you look at women and the key roles that they have played, it’s almost now the norm. I think we must be vigilant, though, and the subtleties will begin to creep in, like what happened with Ambassador Rice and how they denied her even the opportunity to be considered for secretary of state, because the guys over there in the Senate found every which way to try to stop her—and I really am convinced they would not have done that to a man. So I think that there are a lot of impediments still, subconsciously, that we have to be very vigilant with.

MS
: We did have a history-making election in terms of women’s representation in Congress, yet it’s still far from parity. We’ve made advancements in so many other areas—what specific obstacles are there, in terms of women in politics, and what can we do to make that easier for more women?

BL
: Well, I’ll tell you, I’ve got to start with money. This money and politics is obscene. And we have to get the public financing of campaigns to level the playing field. Right now, of course, it’s been a man’s world and so they have the access to the resources, in many ways, much more than women. So we’ve got to have a campaign finance system that really allows for equality. And I think, at this point, that system is not fair and that’s a real factor in federal elections.

MS
: Aside from just equality for equality’s sake, why is it important that we have more women, more diversity in general, in terms of representation in Washington?

BL
: Well, of course, a woman’s perspective is very, very important, in terms of fixing the problems that we have in the world. When women really see a problem, they’ll analyze it much quicker, they’ll try to figure out a fix and then move on to fix it. And I think it’s important to have people who are doers, who are intellectually very smart—you know, women are smart. And so you have that combination of a woman’s head and her heart and her ability to figure out how to get from A to Z. Women are good strategists, they’re good tacticians, and a lot of it may have to do with a lot of the work that we have done in our past—just personally myself, raising two young boys as a single mother on public assistance. That gave me a really good handle on what to look for when we talk about the safety net and welfare reform and healthcare and social security and childcare and all of the issues that allow for women, children, and families to move from living in poverty into the middle class. You know, a lot of women have been through this, and to be able, again, for me personally, to use experiences that I have had to try to say, you know, I’m going to make this better so that the next generation won’t have to go through what I went through.

MS
: A lot of times I think women have felt a little bit detached from what happens in Washington, and then all of a sudden in this last election, there was so much conversation—whether it was over contraception or reproductive rights or even some of the misinformed remarks about rape. Do you think that this last election was a little bit of a wake-up call, that there’s legislation that is directly impacting women’s rights? Women have to be a part of this process now.

BL
: Absolutely, and I believe there is a war on women. And when you look at what has happened here in the House, in terms of the effort to erode women’s rights, women’s healthcare, women’s right to privacy, to an abortion, to pay equity—when you look at everything, there are assaults
on women each and every day. Women are fed up with these assaults. And the war on women . . . which I actually coined! At a press conference I was just so frustrated and I was trying to think of what to say about these attacks, and I said, “You know, this seems like a war on women.” And I think that this caught on, and I think women, whether they agree with it being a war or not, they know that every day they are systematically being attacked here in Congress.

MS
: Do you notice a change with having more women in Congress? I’ve seen a couple of articles recently that actually say it’s already changing the tone. Even having a slight increase in women, do you think it has a tangible impact in terms of the dynamics there?

BL
: Yeah, definitely I do. I think what happens, though, is naturally women get dug into their party position, but I think that the tone in terms of having more women keeps it a little more civil than what it has been in the past. And with Republican women, you know, we have a bipartisan women’s caucus, and we try to find common ground on some issues, but there are some that we just can’t work together on. We acknowledge that and try to find common ground on other issues. And so it has changed some, but it hasn’t changed to the point where we could figure out how to solve the big problems together, because of our values as Democrats versus Republicans.

MS
: What advice would you have for a woman new to Congress on how best to operate and navigate in an old boys’ club, in the sense of being a minority? I remember when I interviewed Nancy Pelosi and she was talking about the “marble ceiling.” As women are moving up in leadership positions, not just in politics but everywhere, that can be a little daunting. Do you have insight on that?

BL
: It really can be, but what I would say is—and this is what Shirley Chisholm told me in ’72—don’t let this daunting task fool you and take you away from the real mission and that is you’ve got to not only play by
their
rules, but change their rules, because the rules of the game may not have been created for women, or by women. And so when you get here, if you see something that’s old school, that’s part of the good old boys’ network, don’t go along to get along—get in here and try to change it. We’ve got to shatter these rules here in Congress. We’ve got to make the structural and systemic changes here, just as we have to do on the outside. And so, yes, it is daunting, but we can’t let that overtake us.

MS
: That’s such an important point. And actually in terms of paradigms that are changing, the other one that I think is changing from that last election is the whole notion of how we think about and use power. Because I think, in addition to the debates over women’s reproductive rights, there was also an awareness, in terms of the responsibility that we have to not just serve the privileged communities, but to make sure that we are helping all people. I know a big part of your work is making sure that we’re helping underserved communities. Do you think that the whole notion of how we view and use power has to change, as well?

BL
: I think it does, because so many don’t even know their power, and the title of Nancy Pelosi’s book was great:
Know Your Power
. I think it takes a while for women to realize what their power is, because we haven’t been part of this for very long. But I think what I have seen is that when women know their power, they really do know how to use it, not for their personal gain, but for the good of the country and the good of their constituents. There’s a big difference there between how women operate versus how men operate. Women know how to wield their power, but from what I see, it’s almost always for the greater good. I think that’s a very important
lesson that men can learn. So you could be a wheeler and a dealer and make whatever compromises are necessary, but you have to remember why you’re doing this and who it’s for and what good is going to come out of it, instead of seeing it as a personal gain.

MS
: What inspires you? Obviously this is not the easiest job to have. A lot of people look at Washington and it looks dysfunctional—it’s not the most attractive career sometimes for people to pursue. But what are the rewards, and what personally inspires you and your service?

BL
: Marianne, that question comes up a lot, because this is a very tough place—and with the Tea Party in control, it’s even tougher. But I think as an African American woman, you have to kind of look at women like me who are here. We have some phenomenal black women in caucus. And as an African American . . . we’ve been through so much in this country. You know, when I started school, I couldn’t go to public schools. You know why? They were segregated. My dad was in the military. He was a military officer, fought in two wars, came back here, we couldn’t even go to eat in a restaurant or go to a public theater. You know what I mean? We had to drink out of the water fountain that said C
OLOREDS ONLY.
I mean, this is not in the distant past. I went through that. And look how far I’ve come, look how far we’ve come. And so there’s no way I can get tired or frustrated or depressed or angry about what’s going on, because I have to remember the past. I have to remember so many people fought and died for the right to vote. So many people did so much just to get me where I am. So it’s my duty and my responsibility to take on this fight and to be part of the resistance movement and to really try to make this a better world. And so that keeps me going. I think as a black woman, my perspective—and I talk to a lot of women who are non-black and who are white and other guys, white guys—and I try to share with them, when they
get down, it’s like, “Come on! You’ve got to walk in my shoes a little bit. Don’t get weary.”

MS
: You talk about looking at things historically. It is sort of astounding to think that women only relatively recently got even the right to vote. Where do you see the status of women, where we are now in the United States and around the world? And what is the current call to action for women?

BL
: Oh boy, we haven’t passed the ERA yet, have we? [
laughs]
I mean, it’s like come on. Oh, my God. So, I think we have a long way to go in this country to catch up with the movement of women around the world, on some fronts. And yet we’re leading on other fronts, so pay equity, gender equity, campaign finance reform, ensuring the quality of life for women who are single moms who want to raise their kids, who want to move ahead in their lives but don’t have the resources—I think there are a lot of structural issues that need to be addressed, so that women can really gain equality. And we’ve got the LGBT community . . . we’ve got a lot of issues that we have to look at in terms of equality and fairness and justice. And so we haven’t gotten there yet, but we’re getting there, and it’s almost like we’re at that moment where we’re taking some quantum leaps. But I think we’ve got to move quicker. I have three granddaughters; I don’t want them to go through this [
laughs]
. I don’t want them to even
think
about reproductive rights or contraception or losing those rights. I don’t even want them to even have a notion that that’s even possible. I don’t even want them to think that they may not be able to do what they want to do because the deck is stacked against them because of money and because of these structural barriers. So . . . it’s a defining moment, I would say.