The Collected Works of Chögyam Trungpa: Volume 6 (26 page)

Student:
Is crying over somebody that you love and can’t see, can’t be with, a part of this aggression that you are talking about? If you love somebody and you miss them, and you begin to cry, is that aggression?

Trungpa Rinpoche:
It depends. But there is that desperate quality: you are desperate and hungry. That quality of desperation is a form of aggression.

S:
Is that a part of confusion, too?

TR:
It could be said.

S:
So what do you do to not have this anymore? You want to stop it, you don’t want it to go on, you are in pain and suffering—but what do you do to stop it?

TR:
You don’t stop the process, you can’t do it. That would be like trying to stop a bullet going on its way: once it is fired, you can’t stop the result or fruition of it; you can prevent it only by not firing the bullet. In other words, we are trying to see the creator of all of this, which is the self-indulgency of ego, and to work with that.

S:
When I get rid of my ego, will that make a difference?

TR:
You don’t get rid of your ego at all.

S:
But if I don’t get rid of my ego I can’t be enlightened, is that right?

TR:
It’s not as simple as that. Without ego you cannot attain enlightenment, so you have to make friends with ego.

Student:
How about aggression which is not directed, nondirected aggression? I mean something like extra energy which is not directed to a situation or to a person or to yourself, but is just there.

Trungpa Rinpoche:
You can’t have an ultimate nondirected hatred.

S:
But there is a kind of aggression which is not hatred, it is just a kind of exuberance.

TR:
Yes, I know what you mean.

S:
It’s inside and you have to get it out, but it’s not hatred.

TR:
Yes. It’s like a lamp giving out light: the light is not directed to one particular spot, but at the same time there is a lamp and there is a burning flame, and without the flame there wouldn’t be light. So it’s a question of dealing with the flame. But any kind of aggression or speed, whether it is directed at a particular situation or whether it is abstract, is the same thing: it could develop into anger or hatred. You see, basically aggression is not allowing things to go on as they are but trying to force the issue, like growing vegetables with chemicals.

Student:
Rinpoche, could you give me sort of a structural approach to fear and explain where the intervals or gaps could be seen? For me, fear seems to be the root of almost everything. All of the things we’re talking about seem to come from some sort of a fear syndrome. I’ve been confused, I haven’t followed, it’s muddled. The only thing I’ve gotten out of this was that fear seems to be the feeder to all of this, and if I could see the structure clearly and where the gaps were, then maybe I could connect to all the other branches of the whole tree.

Trungpa Rinpoche:
It is the intensity of the threat, that possible threat to the survival of the ego: the structure and natural patterns of fear start there. But we don’t actually see the threatening quality ourselves; we only perceive the overwhelming quality of that threat, which is the fear coming back to us, bouncing back on us. It is like an echo: you don’t know how loud you shouted, but you get overwhelmed by the echo coming back on you. The intensity of the echo is the result of your voice.

S:
So the outward manifestation of the experience is the gap to look at, then?

TR:
Yes, exactly.

S:
If you can catch that as it’s happening, you can almost be
with
that thing, right?

TR:
Exactly.

S:
Aha!

TR:
That’s a good one.

Student:
Could you talk about how the projection process works, I mean the whole mirror idea? Who’s watching whom?

Trungpa Rinpoche:
That’s a good question. To put it very simply, you watch the mirror, and your reflection of yourself watches you back.

S:
So then there’s no one watching you but yourself?

TR:
Precisely.

S:
We’re back to the watcher again.

TR:
Yes.

Student:
Bardo experience would seem to be something that you go along with and let happen. It seems as if the watcher is something to get out of.

Trungpa Rinpoche:
The watcher is the self-consciousness. All six bardo experiences are connected with the watcher, with the peak experience of watching yourself and the possibility of losing your grip, the watcher’s grip—which is freedom, the awake state. That ambiguity as to whether you will be able to maintain your watchfulness or whether you are going to lose your watchfulness builds into a peak experience.

Student:
How is it possible to make friends with the ego without going astray through indulgence in ego trips?

Trungpa Rinpoche:
Generally ego is not aware of itself. But in this case you begin to be aware of ego as it is: you don’t try to destroy it, or to exorcise it, but you see it as a step. Each crisis of ego is a step toward understanding, to the awake state. In other words, there are two aspects: ego purely continuing on its own, as it would like to play its game; and ego being seen in its true nature, in which case the game of ego becomes ironical. At the same time, you don’t try to reject it. The game in itself becomes a step, a path.

S:
What do you do? You want to get rid of your ego, but you don’t reject it. I don’t understand.

TR:
You don’t want to get rid of ego. That’s the whole point. You don’t try to get rid of ego at all—but you don’t try to maintain ego either.

S:
Is that where a sense of humor comes in?

TR:
Yes.

Student:
How do you deal constructively with aggression directed against your own person from another person?

Trungpa Rinpoche:
I suppose it’s a question of not providing a target, an expected target. When another person begins to hit you, he automatically expects you’ll be there to be hit. If you are not there to be hit, then he is waving his fist in the air, and there’s the possibility that he might fall back. It’s judo.

S:
So much aggression is of a spiritual cruelty type, and not providing a target is very difficult under these conditions. Somehow your own space is being invaded by the aggressor. You have to occupy a space, and so your theory doesn’t really solve it because you’re still there.

TR:
Well, if they begin to invade you, you could welcome them. By welcoming them, you are invading
their
territory.

Student:
If I were to ask the question, “Who am I?,” would an appropriate answer—I mean a realistic type of answer—be, “I am that which goes with the situation as it presents itself”?

Trungpa Rinpoche:
If you ask, “Who am I?”—if you don’t regard it as a question but as a statement, then that question
is
the answer.

Student:
I’m still trying to clarify something about this question of the observer, because I think that where the confusion arises in me is the value I place on it. In other words, if I’m really going with the situation as it presents itself, maybe there is an observer there and maybe there isn’t, but it’s as if the whole value I place on it is absent.

Trungpa Rinpoche:
Well, you see, the whole point is that as soon as you try to get something out of something, there is the possibility that because you want, you may not get anything in return. For instance, if you want to learn, if you want to know, there’s something poverty-stricken about that, it is a sort of hunger, ultimately. And the more you demand, the less you’re going to get. But if one has the attitude of richness, if you ask questions not out of poverty but out of richness—with that mentality, the question just happens as a statement rather than as a question. Then the answer happens as a natural process.

Student:
Is there a constructive aspect to aggression?

Trungpa Rinpoche:
Definitely, it is the energy. It is like the techniques we use in meditation. All sorts of different techniques and all sorts of inspirations that we use could be said to be aggression, but aggression without an owner. It is not domesticated aggression; it’s wild aggression, independent aggression. It floats in the air as electricity—tremendous, powerful, active, and penetrating—which is beautiful.

Student:
Somebody asked a question about how to transmute sexual energy and you didn’t answer the question.

Trungpa Rinpoche:
I suppose it’s a question of how you view the actual sexual energy. It may be seen as a kind of communication, an act of generosity without any demand. But once you begin to make demands, you are solidifying the space of communication. In that case, the other person is not able to communicate with you at all; whereas if there is openness, exchange takes place freely as it is, in the open sense of generosity. That is what is called the dance.

S:
But what if you can’t express it, if it’s not possible for social reasons or for other reasons?

TR:
Well, you learn from that, I suppose. You can’t change the whole situation because you want it. There’s no magic in this sense. If you are thirsty in the middle of the desert, you can’t just miraculously create water. That is impossible. The only thing to do is to work with it and learn from it—and in the future, next time, probably you will have a very profound idea of what thirst is. It has a tremendous impact on you.

Student:
I get from all this that you should be rich and not hungry. But I’m rich and hungry at the same time. How am I going to jump over the hurdle of feeling rich and hungry at the same time? How will I be able to jump over and just be rich and forget about my hunger?

Trungpa Rinpoche:
You don’t forget your hunger, your poverty, when you’re rich; otherwise there would be no richness at all, there would be no criterion for richness anymore. Rich is in comparison to poor.

S:
I don’t understand.

TR:
If you are rich, how rich you are is dependent on how poor you are not, isn’t it? So you work along with that.

Student:
Is there a relationship between passion and compassion? What is the relationship?

Trungpa Rinpoche:
The relationship is this: compassion contains wisdom and intelligence and is awake, beyond neurosis; passion contains neurosis, sleep, and dullness. It is exactly the same thing we’ve been talking about in terms of the transmutation of sexual energy.

S:
What if they are both there at the same time?

TR:
Then it’s like the bardo experience of reaching the peak point in which you are uncertain whether you are bound by passion or whether you are about to awake into compassion. And the only thing to do is to communicate with those experiences. You do not particularly try to offbalance passion into compassion or compassion into passion, but if you are properly communicative and able to perceive the situation as it is, then neither compassion not passion exists. It is free, open space.

S:
Then you are awake?

TR:
When we talk about there being two things at the same time, we are talking about polarities. And if you don’t have any criteria for or against anymore, then that is ultimate awake or, you could say, ultimate compassion.

Student:
In this talk of sexual energy, how does the state of orgasm relate to sleep or awake, passion or compassion?

Trungpa Rinpoche:
It depends on the background. It could be both—it’s the same as any kind of physical contact, which could either be ultimate possessiveness coming through or ultimate openness, which is awakening.

S:
Well, there is a difference right there between passion and compassion: one desires possession and the other just gives of itself and is satisfied in the act.

TR:
If you see them as independent things, there is a difference, whereas, if you see them as polarities, there isn’t.

Student:
Can aggression be used as skillful means, the way Marpa did with Milarepa?

Trungpa Rinpoche:
That happens all the time, sure. That kind of aggression is very accurate aggression. For instance, with Marpa’s aggression, he never missed an opportunity or a chance. It is very accurate, very efficient. Such aggression contains wisdom, as compassion contains wisdom. It is awake aggression, always applicable.

Student:
It sounds as if passion is something bad, something to be avoided, and that we should be compassionate. There seem to be
shoulds
.

Trungpa Rinpoche:
On the other hand, unskillful compassion could be said to be passion as well. It is a different way of using words.

Student:
What about refraining from passion or anger or any of the emotions? Does that lead to a greater awake state, or is that just another trick of ego and of the watcher?

Trungpa Rinpoche:
Well, I wouldn’t call it a trick. You see,
refraining
is a very vague term. It is a question of whether you refrain from the actual act or whether you fundamentally work with it. Refraining is suppression—but putting something into practice could also be suppression, or an escape. The ultimate meaning of refraining is not sowing any seeds.

NINE

The Lonely Journey

S
INCE THIS PARTICULAR SESSION
is going to be the last one, I think we should try to develop further perspective, or view, as to what we have discussed and its application to everyday life. Of course, everyone must go through different phases of so-called normality and so-called abnormality, such as tension, depression, happiness, and spirituality. All these phases that we go through constantly seem to be what we have been talking about in this seminar. Unless we are able to apply this to everyday life, there is no point to it. Often, before we begin to apply it to anything, certain reminders come up to show us whether we are going too fast or going too slow. I’m not talking in terms of divine power or psychic phenomena of any kind, but the kitchen-sink level—conflicts of the bedroom and conflicts of the sink. Such situations are always present, but on the other hand we are left completely alone—without help, without a sympathizer, without a comforter.