The Search for Bridey Murphy (20 page)

Can you ever remember attending Mass?

No.

Didn’t Brian make you go whenever he went?

No.

Oh, he didn’t?

No.

Oh, I see. Now, we would like to check, we would like to check any records, or any other indications, that prove you lived in Ireland at that time. Where could we find, where could we find some records, or any other indications, that would prove you lived in Ireland at that time?

… Uh… there would be some articles in the Belfast
News-Letter
.

The Belfast
News-Letter?

About Brian?

Yes. And he taught at the Queen’s University for some time… you know, the Queen’s University at Belfast.

Uh-huh. And his name appeared in the paper?

Yes, on several times.

Uh-huh.

Belfast
News-Letter
.

Where else would we find any records of it? Was there a marriage certificate?

Oh… I believe there was… sure… there was banns published. It was… Father John had the banns published.

Uh-huh.

What’s a band?

Oh, it’s something in the church… you do it before you get married, you… you… know it’s an important bulletin or something, you tell the people that you’re going to get married.

Oh, I see. All right.

That’s the church….

What was your address? Can you possibly remember your address in Belfast?

Uh… uh… uh… uh…

Can you tell us anything about the neighborhood? What side of town, and so forth?

Oh, it was near town, it was near a road, some road…

What was the name of that road? Did it have a name?

It was… about… twenty minutes from St. Theresa’s… walking distance.

What was the address at Cork, can you remember that address?

That was… the Meadows.

The what?

Just the Meadows.

Uh-huh.

All right. I want you to remember your lifetime in Ireland about the time you were forty-seven years old. About that time did you have plenty to eat?

There was… a… I remember… we did.

You did?

Uh… there was trouble.

There was trouble?

Uh, there was trouble.

What kind of trouble?

Well, the people in the South… uh… they didn’t want to have anything to do with England. They… all they… want to send
no
representative, have nothing to do with them. We… people wouldn’t talk Gaelic. Grandfather wouldn’t talk Gaelic, he would say, “Gaelic is fit only for the tongues of the peasants. Don’t speak Gaelic; it’s fit only for the tongues of the peasants.”

Your grandfather?

Yes.

What was his name?

His name was… Duncan too.

Duncan too?

Uh-huh.

All right. Do you remember any wars, any war or wars, that the people in Ireland were engaged in during your lifetime? Do you remember any wars?

Oh… I remember… about Cuchulain.

About what?

Cuchulain. He was a warrior.

He was?

Yes.

An Irishman?

Yes… he was the bravest, and the strongest, and when he was seven… seven years old, he could slay big men.

Is that right?

Uh… when he was seventeen he could hold whole armies.

Did you ever see him?

No.

Where did you hear about him?

My mother told me about him.

I see. Did you ever hear anything about America? During this lifetime did you ever hear anything about America?

Uh… yes… some… somebody went there. They went to… America.

Who went there?

Some friends of my mother and father, and they went to Pennsylvania.

To stay?

Yes.

Did they write to you?

They always wrote to my mother… ’n’ my father.

What were the names of those friends?

… Uh… Whitty.

Whitty?

Whitty.

That was their last name?

Uh-huh.

And they went to Pennsylvania.

Uh-huh.

Did they like America?

Uh-
huh
.

They wrote your mother that they liked America?

Uh-huh.

I see. Now you say you were sixty-six years old when you died?

Uh-huh.

And you died while Brian was at church?

Yes, I died while Brian was at church. [Very faintly.]

All right. Now I want you to rest. I want you to rest and relax, be completely comfortable. Now, we’ll return again to your lifetime in Ireland, return again to your lifetime in Ireland, return again to your lifetime in Ireland, What was the name of that famous mountain in Ireland?

Can you remember the name?

I just can’t remember.

Just can’t quite remember?

No, I just…

Well, give us the names of some other loughs.

Loughs! [Correcting pronunciation.]

Loughs, all right. Give us a few, two or three.

Lough Munster.

Lough Munster? All right, what else?

Lough… There’s a lough for each…

Lough what?

For each… of the provinces. There’s… four provinces… Munster, Ulster… Ulster….

Ulster. Remember any other?

Uh… uh… two more.

Can’t remember the other two?

No.

All right. Let’s go up to the time of your death, up to the time of your death. How old were you?

Sixty-six when I died.

All right. What happened after you died? Tell us about what happened after you died. Did you watch them bury you?

Oh, I watched them. I watched them ditch my body.

You watched them ditch your body?

Yes.

And you saw Brian?

Oh yes, I saw him. He was there.

Where did you go? After you died?

I went home. I stayed in the house and watched Brian.

You watched Brian?

Uh-huh.

All right. How did Father John die?

Father John… he just died in his sleep.

Died in his sleep?

Yes.

You didn’t watch him die, did you?

No, I didn’t watch him die.

But he came to you after he died?

Yes, he did, and we talked…. He had a pleasant death.

He had a pleasant death?

Uh-huh.

Well, where did Father John go when he left you? When he left the house there, where did he go?

He said he was going to his home.

He said he was going to his home?

Uh-huh.

Do you have any idea where Father John could be now? Is he living on this earth?

I don’t know…. He’s living. He lives.

He lives?

He lives.

How do you know?

I just… know that you live.

But do you know
where
he lives? Do you have any idea where he lives?

No… I don’t know. I went back to Cork and I didn’t see him.

I see. All right, while you were in this spiritual world, while you were in this spiritual world did you hear anyone call it the astral world? Did you hear anyone call it the astral world?

Astral world.

Did you ever hear that name?

Yes, I’ve heard that.

All right, we will refer to it as the astral world. We will now refer to it as the astral world. In this astral world did you have any feelings or emotions?

You were just… satisfied; you weren’t… you… I felt bad when… when Father John died, but he came to me and we talked, and it was not like the grief you have here.

Not like the grief you have here?

No, it’s… nothing to be afraid of.

Did you have any pain in that astral world?

No. No.

No pain? Did you have any attachments of any kind, any family attachments, relatives?

No.

No marriages?

No.

I see. Do relatives stay together?

No. No… we… it was… no, my mother was never with me. My father said he saw her, but I didn’t.

Oh, you didn’t see your mother?

No.

Your father, though, told you that he saw her.

Yes.

I see. Was there any such thing as love and hate?

No.

You neither loved nor hated?

No… loved those that you left.

You didn’t hate anyone?

No.

You said that you couldn’t talk very long with anyone in that astral world, that they would go away. You said that you couldn’t talk very long because they would go away. Where would they go?

They would just… journey… just a passing phase… 
you just… you have no time. There’s… nothing’s important… you just…

All right. You said that you went from your house at Belfast in this astral world, you drifted back to Cork. How did you get from Belfast to Cork?

… I just willed myself there.

You did what?

Willed myself there.

Willed yourself there. How long did it take to get from Belfast to Cork? I don’t know. It wasn’t any time. It wasn’t any time? In other words, when you thought about being in Cork you were there in Cork?

Just almost.

Uh-huh. All right. While you were in Cork in this astral life, in this astral world, did you know what was going on at Belfast, back at Brian’s house, could you tell what was going on in Belfast at Brian’s house?

No.

You didn’t know?

I didn’t… watch. You could.

You could watch?

You could… but… I didn’t watch. I just stayed there… you could see… just
anything
.

You could see anything you wanted to see just by wanting to see it?

Just willing it… so you just think… you see everything.

I see. Could you ever tell, while you were at Belfast, could you ever tell what Brian was thinking about? Could you tell what he was
thinking
about?

Oh, I knew when he missed me. I knew when he needed me…’n’… he missed me after Father John didn’t come to the house.

He missed you then?

Yes. He… was lonesome before, but they would talk, and he had somebody…. After he died, he was lonely.

After he died, what?

After Father John died, he was lonely.

I see. Could you read his thoughts then, could you read his thoughts all the time?

… If I thought of it I could think of… I could know what he wanted and think. When you saw your brother, your little brother that died—
when you went back to Cork you told us that you saw your little brother that died.

Yes.

How did he look? Did he look like a small child, or did he look like a grown-up adult?

He was just little.

Just the way he looked when he died?

No, he was… he was just a child, but he wasn’t… he could talk.

I see. Could he talk when he died?

No, he was… no, he couldn’t when he died… he was just a baby.

Uh-huh, but he could talk when you saw him?

Yes, he could talk then.

How was he dressed?

No clothes.

No clothes. All right. And you remember talking to your little brother. Do you remember anything he told you?

Yes… he told me that… Duncan and I would run through the room and… push over the cradle, and Duncan would tip him out, and he’d cry, and Duncan would run and hide and my mother would think I did it.

Well, didn’t that hurt him when you tipped over the cradle? It was on the ground. It was…

Oh, I see.

Just a little thing. He would just roll out.

Didn’t you and Duncan like your little brother?

Oh yes. We liked him, but he… he was always so sick, and my mother was always with him after he came. What did he die of, your little brother?

… Don’t know. … I can’t….

What did he die of?

… I can’t remember…. He was just a baby, I know, but…

All right. In that astral world, in that astral world did you ever have any changes in temperature, any hot or cold? No, No heat, no cold. Did you ever have any wars of any kind, any fights of any kind?

No.

No wars, no fights?

No.

All right. In that astral world did you have a sense of smell,
and touch, and hearing, and seeing? Did you have all those senses? In the astral world could you touch things?

No.

Could you smell things?

No. You could see….

You could see.

And you could…

You couldn’t smell? You couldn’t touch?

You could hear.

But you could hear. All right. Now you told us that there was always a sort of light in your astral world, there was always a sort of light but that you could see the night and day, you could see the night and day that Brian was having while it was always light where you were. Is that right?

Uh-huh.

That light that you had, that light, you could see it clearly, and you could see when Brian was having night and day, is that correct?

Yes.

But could you touch or feel or sense the light that you were having in the astral world? Could you sense that light in any way besides seeing it? Could you sense that light in any other way besides seeing it?

No.

You couldn’t.

No.

All right. How could you tell you were having light all the time? How could you tell? How could you tell that Brian was having night and day?

I could see him, and I could see him go to bed, and I would sit there by the bed… and they just accept the night and day.

Well, then you knew it was night because he was going to bed, but did you actually see a change in color?

No. No, I just knew it was night. He accepted it.

Oh, I see. He accepted it, but you couldn’t see it?