What Will It Take to Make A Woman President?: Conversations About Women, Leadership and Power (38 page)

AH
: Well, you know, it was a very narrow margin. And it was interesting: there were two women in the Senate, and one voted to confirm and one voted against confirmation. Let’s just say it this way: if the nine women who went over from Congress to the Senate had been in the Senate [
laughs]
, then Clarence Thomas would not have been confirmed. So women’s representation is important, but I guess that is to say, the kind of women who understand women’s lives and women’s perspectives and the significance of the issues we confront in the country in general [are important]. If those women are in, yes, I think they can change the climate, and it would have changed what happened in 1991.

MS
: We were talking when we first started about this notion of having to appear tough to be a leader. I think that Barack Obama has redefined that a little bit, because he is not this tough-talking, macho guy. He talks a lot about how important his family is, he’s very comfortable showing his emotion, so I think in some ways, he’s been a different kind of leader. He tries to reach to both aisles and be more conciliatory, so I think he’s done a lot in redefining how we see leaders, too.

AH
: Well, I agree with you. But also, there is a certain kind of muscularity that he exhibits when it comes to drones, for example [
laughs]
. And so I think that’s going to be an issue when it comes to a woman. Will women, for example, have to be more inclined to go to war to prove themselves as suitable military leaders? I mean, will you have to be, on a scale of hawkishness [
laughs
], a ten, as opposed to a male leader, who might be a seven?

MS
: What do you think are the most important ingredients that we need in a leader today, male or female?

AH
: I think that most important is the ability to connect with the problems of people who are not like you—who have been underserved by
government historically, who don’t enjoy the privileges that you do. And maybe my concept of what is important in leadership is shaped by the time. I am, of course, shaped by my history, and it’s shaped by some of the issues that I deal with with my academic colleagues. I work in a school— a school for social policy—and we look at issues and ways to improve circumstances for people who are going to be left behind politically or economically in this country. And so the ability to connect with those people, really connect, and design policies that will include their well-being—with an understanding that as they go, so goes the rest of the country—I think that is important and may be the most critical characteristic of a leader today. Because so often those are the people who are not going to be represented by a lobbyist or a very important vocal donor, so those are the interests that can get lost. And I think those are the interests that maybe some leaders will take for granted—“Oh well, we have social safety nets for them”—without really considering what’s going to be best. We could just assume, well, we have some things in place for them, but have not necessarily given any real thought to whether those things work and how they work and what the strategic goals for those programs are.

MS
: Now, being on college campuses, you probably have a finger on the pulse of what’s happening. There’s a lot of talk that younger women are possibly a little bit apathetic or don’t see themselves as feminists. What is your impression of both young women and young people today, because you are on a campus interacting with them all the time?

AH
: You know, I see young women coming at these issues from all sides. Some of them come with a consciousness that, yes, these are important issues and want to address some. Some come at them when they’re confronted with bias, and then they realize, “Oh, gosh, now I must be aware, because it’s hitting
me.”
And some just don’t think that they’re important
in their lives. I don’t think that’s any different from women my age, honestly. I do think that they have a different way of dealing with these issues and addressing them, but you have to remember that for women of my generation, we were shaped by our times. I grew up watching movement take shape, on television, and they don’t have that frame of reference, and so the way they react and they respond is going to be shaped by how they have seen issues come to the fore. And I don’t think they’ve seen movement so much as they’ve seen sort of one-off situations. Like, for example, Sandra Fluke, the young woman who was denied the opportunity to testify about birth control. They see, for example, problems on campus with sexual assault, or they see what went on at Yale a couple of years ago, and at Amherst. They’re not part of a movement; they’re part of episodes. I think that we’re just facing a different time and we have to realize that just as we are shaped by our times or what our times were when we were growing up, they are as well. It doesn’t mean that they don’t care or that they don’t see the issues, but I do think that they have a different way of engaging with them.

MS
: Obviously, you have so much wisdom to offer, and you’re now working with your students. What do you try to instill in them as they go off into the world? What do you hope that they come away with, and generally, what would your words of wisdom or advice be to young women today?

AH
: My advice would be, with the people whom I try to give something to, to take the tools and the skills and the resources of every kind that you have, and go out, find something that you know is not fair, is not just, and begin to change it. In whatever way you know, in whatever way is appropriate for you, but don’t ignore it. Don’t think it’s somebody else’s job to change it. Confront it in your own way, and make it your job to make change.

KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND

“My own experience in Congress is when women are on committees and at hearings, the nature of the discussion is different and the outcomes are better
—
we reach better solutions, better decisions are made. So I really want to create a nationwide call to action to get more women engaged. . . . To say, ‘Women, we need you to be advocates, to be heard on the issues you care about, to be voting, to be running for office, to be part of decision-making.’”

U
.S. S
ENATOR
K
IRSTEN
Gillibrand was twice elected to the U.S. Senate, in just four years, with an overwhelming 63 percent of the vote in 2010, and a New York state record-breaking 72 percent in 2012. After first being elected to the House of Representatives in 2006, she was appointed to serve in the seat vacated by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in January 2009. She is the mother of two young sons, Theo and Henry, ages nine and four.

In a short time, Gillibrand has made her presence felt in Washington. She helped lead the fight to repeal “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” worked tirelessly to successfully pass legislation to provide health care for the 9/11 first responders who are sick and dying from toxins at Ground Zero, and served as an architect in passing the STOCK Act, that for the first time makes it clearly illegal for members of Congress to profit from non-public information.
The New York Times
called her commitment to promoting
transparency in Congress a “quiet touch of revolution,” and The Sunlight Foundation, the leading advocacy organization dedicated to openness in government, praises Gillibrand as a “pioneer” for her work. Kirsten has been a leading voice for how to grow our economy, protect middle class families, strengthen our national security, end the war in Afghanistan, protect women’s rights, and get women more engaged in the political process. She is the founder of Off the Sidelines, an initiative and website that offers encouragement and resources to help women make a difference in their communities and make their voices heard.
Newsweek
and
The Daily Beast
have twice named Gillibrand one of “150 Women Who Shake the World.”

MARIANNE SCHNALL
: Do you think you will see a woman president in your lifetime?

KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND
: I think we will have a woman president, and I think her name will be Hillary Clinton. Her breadth of experience would make her the most well prepared president in history, and I am going to do everything I can do to support her if she decides to run in 2016.

MS
: Do you think the American consciousness is ready for a woman president?

KG
: Absolutely.

MS
: What made you decide to launch the Off the Sidelines initiative?

KG
: Well, it really occurred to me over the last few years that women are not sufficiently part of the decision-making fabric of this country—whether in Congress, state governments, corporate boardrooms, or corner
suites, there are not enough women’s voices being heard. So when we’re actually trying to look at issues like the economy, solving these problems, I feel that if more women’s voices were heard, if more women were part of decision-making, our outcomes would be better. And a lot of studies support that; a lot of studies show that when women are on corporate boards, companies do better. My own experience in Congress is when women are on committees and at hearings, the nature of the discussion is different and the outcomes are better—we reach better solutions, better decisions are made. So I really want to create a nationwide call to action to get more women engaged both in solving this economic crisis and entering political life and being heard on political issues.

So it’s very much like the Rosie the Riveter campaign was during World War II. During that campaign, the problem was men were fighting the war and the war industries needed workers. And women rarely worked outside the home, so they had to have a call to action. So Rosie the Riveter was born and her sleeves are rolled up, she’s got a kerchief on—the slogan was “We can do it!” My grandmother was a riveter, my great-aunt, my great-grandmother was a riveter—and they literally went to the arsenal and worked during World War II to make a difference and to help, to help the country.

So I feel like we need Rosie the Riveter of our generation. That campaign alone brought two million women into the work force within fourteen months, and by the end of the war, six million. So if we can have a similar call to action, to say, “Women, we need you to be advocates, to be heard on the issues you care about, to be voting, to be running for office, to be part of decision making.” And on the economic side, if we are going to out-innovate, out-compete, and out-educate other countries, our competitors, we are only going to succeed if women are leading the way. And that’s largely because women are now graduating with more than 50 percent of advanced degrees, more than 50 percent of college degrees, and women-owned and
minority-owned businesses are the fastest growing sector within small businesses. So if we can address things like equal pay—women are earning 77 cents on the dollar—if we had equal pay in this country, you could raise the GDP by up to 9 percent. Because women-owned businesses are so fast growing, if they had the same access to capital—women start businesses with eight times less capital than men—we would see greater economic growth. With women’s participation in the economy, in economic and political decision-making, we would have a better result. And we frankly just need women right now to be part of these decisions.

MS
: One of the things that often happens is that these efforts to boost women’s representation are wrongly misinterpreted as being somehow anti-male, which of course they aren’t. Keeping that in mind, what qualities do you think women can bring to leadership that are most needed in the world right now?

KG
: Well, I think a woman’s perspective often will complement a male’s perspective. In fact, oftentimes we see the problem differently, we see the solution differently, and so by bringing that perspective to the table, you will have a more holistic approach. For example, women are often very good listeners, often good consensus-builders, often able to compromise and reach across party lines in Congress, able to forge deals and reach better solutions. So I think by nature we are very good at consensus-building, but we also often seek political office for different reasons. Many women come to political life because they want to solve problems or address a certain issue that they care deeply about—less often are they coming to Washington for power of self-aggrandizement.

MS
: Women today are faced with many challenges of balancing work and family, something I know you can relate to and frequently talk about.
Oftentimes as women, we think we need to hide the truth of our personal realities. Do you think we need to be talking more about those issues and challenges to inform policy and create change?