The Nuremberg Interviews (67 page)

“Sabotage became more frequent and more German army personnel were shot in the back. The army reported all these daily happenings to headquarters, so Hitler, Ribbentrop, Jodl, Keitel, and the rest must have known about it.

“Countersabotage was still not employed. One night a German officer was shot in the back and the army asked for reprisals, but Best tried to impose money fines. Pancke became afraid of Himmler and ordered me to shoot several Danes at once. I told him I didn’t know who, we just could not go on the street and shoot Danes. He ordered me to take political prisoners. Three internees, Communists, should be brought before a court-martial and shot while escaping. It was to be prearranged. Himmler was to be informed that three Danes were shot while escaping.” What do you think about Himmler’s personality or character? “I didn’t know him personally. I know that in upper Austria fifteen German girls had sexual intercourse with workers from the East. Himmler ordered eight-and-a-half-year concentration camp terms for the girls.” What happened to the workers? “I presume that they were executed.

“In Krakow a Criminal Police officer, over fifty years of age, shook hands with a Jew. Himmler was informed and ordered a two-year term in Dachau for this employee. This was at the time of the battle of Stalingrad. It shows that Himmler had time to think of these ridiculous things.

“Pancke did the execution of the three Danes in order to quiet Hitler and Himmler, when they read of the fatal shooting of the German officer. The three were shot. It was in the papers the next day. Himmler was informed about it.

“Himmler realized they wanted to fool him. ‘How did you do it?’ he cabled. Next day Pancke received an order from Himmler that he was personally responsible for a countersabotage program that must be carried out at once. And Pancke must submit a death list.

“When the next act of sabotage occurred, Pancke chose two names from a list. That contained names and professions of people. There were no Communists on it. The first selected by Pancke was an author and priest. The second was another author. These two were to be murdered immediately. From Berlin came four men, with possibly a fifth. They were from the armed SS.”

Personality of Pancke? “He was a powerless tool in the hands of Himmler, of whom he was afraid, and by whom he was treated poorly. Himmler insulted Pancke like a schoolboy. Pancke was about forty-eight to fifty years old, came from northern Germany.

“Pancke gave me orders to blow up a museum in Copenhagen, where students gathered, and some other places. I declined and said I needed a written order by Himmler. Pancke was angry, but it was not done. Another example: The State Police were billeted. These billets included the offices of Best, my own, Pancke, and staff, and commissioner of the Ordinary Police and his staff. Near it was a big tourist hotel. Pancke ordered that property blown up as an act of countersabotage. I asked why. The reason was that once in that hotel Pancke’s secretary couldn’t get a meal served after 7 p.m. There was also a strict police order that restaurants were not allowed to sell after 7 p.m.

“In Copenhagen there was an associate of Best, Paul Barandon. Pancke asked that I put an explosive in Barandon’s desk or house. Barandon was a German. Pancke and Barandon had served in the same regiment in the last war; they had had an old quarrel years before, and that was enough for Pancke. It wasn’t done.

“Sabotage became more frequent. On December 18, I went on a furlough and was supposed to return on January 5. When I arrived home I got a wire to be back in Copenhagen on December 29. It came from Pancke through his deputy. I later learned the reason through the deputy. Best, Pancke, Hannekan, and Kaltenbrunner were all called to Hitler’s headquarters on December 30 for lunch. I went to Berlin, reported to Mueller on December 28 and 29, and told him that because I didn’t execute countersabotage orders these people were to be scolded by Hitler. Mueller said: ‘Comrade Mildner, watch yourself. Himmler is angry with you.’

“I flew back to Copenhagen with some idea of what was in store for me. On January 1, Best called me to his house, and after dinner, with just Best, his wife, and myself in the smoking room, he told me of the trip to Hitler’s headquarters. Best and Pancke were received in Rastenburg, terribly bawled out, told they would get a good spanking from Hitler if they didn’t carry out the countersabotage program. At the same time Kaltenbrunner, Best, and Pancke were told that Mildner had to disappear immediately. Best and Kaltenbrunner tried to stand up for me, but not Pancke. Mueller told me that later. In Heydrich’s time I would surely
have been brought before an SS court. Pancke was seriously reprimanded by Himmler, who placed him on three months’ probation. If orders were not carried out in that time, Himmler promised Pancke there would be disciplinary action.

“Present at the lunch with Hitler were Hannekan, Best, Pancke, Jodl, Kaltenbrunner, Keitel, and Himmler. Ribbentrop was ill at the time. The lunch took three hours and not because it was an elaborate meal. Hitler explained his plans for Denmark and said it could only be made peaceful through intensive countersabotage. In other words, murder and explosion. It shouldn’t be kept at all secret. If a Dane who worked for the Nazis was murdered or a Danish factory working for Germany damaged, on the very same day a Danish factory or prominent person should be murdered, and the papers should carry the story prominently the next day. A prominent Danish scientist was murdered by unknown men, or a factory blown up, the papers should read, with satire and irony. In other words it was not to be made secret anymore. The Danes were to know.” Plain terrorism? “Yes. Hitler explained quietly that he wanted these things done. It is of interest that no one objected or talked back. It was law and it was genius speaking.

“I was relieved as of December 31, and my successor was Otto Bovensiepen, who took over my duties on January 5. I went on to Kassel.”

Mildner finished his story of Denmark the day before yesterday after a lengthy session, and he continued today. He seemed less inclined to talking, but once the subject of Kattowitz was broached, he went on like a phonograph machine, and I barely interrupted him but let him tell his story in his own way, as he willed it. His depression and poor appetite, with some morning vomiting, has improved. He seemed brighter and more cheerful, also more reserved than on Tuesday.

“I was in Kassel only a short time, as inspector for the SD and SS. What happened there is unimportant.” What about Kattowitz? “I am leading up to that. I stayed in Berlin for three months. In mid-June 1944, I came to Vienna and stayed there until the end of the war. I want to give you some background about Silesia.

“After the war in Poland, Silesia was divided into two districts: one, Lower Silesia, whose capital was Breslau, and, two, Upper Silesia, whose capital was Kattowitz. Parts of Silesia and of Poland were taken into the
Reich. The whole district had a population of 4.5 million. Upper Silesia before 1918 was partly German, a smaller part Russian, and the greatest part Austrian. The inhabitants were mainly German or of German ancestry, as well as Polish-German, and pure Polish. There were two groups: a Polish minority with German citizenship before 1939, who lived in the territory of the Reich, and a second group that was mainly German before 1921, but became Polish after 1921.

“In the district itself there were tremendous supplies of coal, very valuable hard coal, worth millions and millions. Coal there was more plentiful than in all the Ruhr, Rhineland, and Westphalia. During the war it outproduced the entire western coal region. Wherever there is coal, there is other industry. There were tremendous war industries, private industries; and an additional factor was that it was never bombed. Due to aerial bombardments in the West, much industry moved to this territory. Gigantic factories were built by IG Farben at Auschwitz. Manufacturing of synthetic rubber, fuel, and other allied chemical products was done. There were refineries for Romanian oil. Zinc, iron, and steel works. Factories for panzers, U-boats.

“Thus, since Upper Silesia was not endangered by aerial attack it was the most important industrial region of the Reich. On the east it was bordered by Poland. On the south by Slovakia. In the southwest by the Protectorate of Moravia. In the west, Lower Silesia and the Sudetenland.

“In this territory there had been a high rate of political and criminal crimes before 1914. In the first place, it was tremendously overpopulated, and secondly there was an unusual mixture of peoples. And there were the three borders of Russia, Austria, and Germany. Just seven and a half kilometers east of Kattowitz were three borders. Entire segments of the population lived on smuggling, and fights ensued. There was the easy possibility of switching to another country to escape prosecution for deeds done in one country. Anyone committing a crime in Austria could go to Russia or Germany and vice versa. Crime spread. High treason was widespread, Russians against the Russian government, Germans against Germany, Austrians against Austria. In 1920 or 1921 there were three Polish uprisings against the government. It was mostly German territory. Many thousands of Germans were murdered by Poles. In 1939 when the territory was occupied by German troops, there began underground and resistance movements and political activity by
mixed language groups. A great part of the Polish people were illegally organized to procure weapons and explosives. There were many assassinations.

“Such was the situation when I arrived in Kattowitz on the first of March 1941.” His highest superior was party district administrator Bracht of Upper Silesia. The latter had all the party powers “in his hands.” As far as the Security Police, he had two superiors, both stationed in Breslau. Bach-Zelewski was chief of SS and police in Upper and Lower Silesia. He replaced Schmauser in May or June 1941.
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Mildner reported to Bracht explaining he did not know the territory because he had never been there before. “He told me of the situation, that Upper Silesia was the most important province of the Reich, on which might depend victory or defeat in war. Bracht said he was willing to rule with an iron hand in order to keep security.

“He told me he was afraid the Poles might have an uprising. The Poles worked by all means and organizations, with time bombs, reaching up to Breslau and Berlin. Poles started a fire in a railway station in Berlin. They maintained spy rings in the whole Reich. Time bombs. Blown-up tracks. Water poisoned. German police killed. Army men shot. Bands of eighty bandits fought with pistols, grenades, in the woods. At the same time there arose criminal bands that robbed farms and homes. Robbery was a daily occurrence. Poles who were made mayors were murdered, too. The police suffered over a hundred dead in my time there. In Krakow and Warsaw it was even more hectic. Trains were attacked by daylight, all Germans shot. Open uprisings in Polish territory. Uprisings in Warsaw and other districts.

“There were no military personnel in Upper Silesia. Only the Ordinary Police, which were divided among the towns and the State Police, numbering 250 for the entire area of Kattowitz. There was a constant fear of riots spreading, and the population could not be counted on to help at all. The Polish population gave no Polish criminals into German hands. The German population feared reprisals because the criminals were so well organized.

“Then there was the fear that Germany might lose the war, the territory might again become Polish, and the Poles would take terrible reprisals as they did in 1920–21.

“On June 1, 1942, the party district administrator decreed martial law. The minister of justice, Otto Thierack, and Minister of Interior Frick,
with Himmler and Heydrich, agreed to set up a court-martial at the disposal of Bracht. For the court-martial, the president of the court was to be the chief of the State Police, which was myself. The second member of the court-martial board was chief of the Criminal Police. And there was to be one other member. Before this court came all the political and criminal crimes committed against the interests of Germany.”

Otto Ohlendorf
1907–1951

Otto Ohlendorf was a member of the National Socialist Party from 1925, head of the security services of the Reich Security Main Office during World War II, commander of
Einsatzgruppe
D on the eastern front, and SS lieutenant general from November 1944. Sentenced to death in April 1948 at a Nuremberg hearing, he was hanged on June 8, 1951.

Otto Ohlendorf was born in Hanover in February 1907. Actually, he said he was born in Hoheneggelsen, near Hanover. He lived there until 1927. He looks older than his thirty-nine years, and has a washed-out, ghoulish appearance, short, slumped forward, affectless. He tends to speak precisely, but his manner is of a man who is expected to be insulted at any moment and is being defensive about it.

He attended elementary school three years; gymnasium at Hildesheim — nine years of gymnasium, repeated two years. One year he could not graduate, the other year he purposely did not graduate because of political activities. That was in 1925.